Is Quickbooks for Mac going for Sierra? Is there another alternative other than online?

Not quite so obvious! Most of us who use QB don’t know that beta means it’s not the final version. I only found out by looking it up. http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/what-does-beta-software-really-mean/
In fact, QB knows that most people will think that IN JULY they’ll have to make a choice between upgrading to the most current version of mac operating system or continue using QB. What’s obvious to me is that the email was sent to confuse people as much as to inform them. It makes you think that the next upgrade to your OS on your mac is not going to work with your accounting software. This is A VERY BIG DEAL for small operations. I’m just going to stay with Yosemite until a finalized version of Sierra comes out. I’ll bet anything that QB 2015 will be supported - and vice versa - in the final version. Single operators and new businesses who use this kind of software just can’t afford the online version - especially if they need to track inventory.

• real.antiques.sa

The GM (final) version of Sierra has been released to developers and QB 2015 does not work on it

• marcelokurtz

The GM (final) version of Sierra is still in beta. It will be released to customers on Sept 20th.

• IntuitBiscotti

This is frustrating and makes me think seriously about switching to another software. It isn't much to ask to let me know whether your software will stop functioning in 8 days when Sierra launches. Please, will it, or won't it?

• mark

I'm not allowed to comment on future software releases.  This is rule enforced by Intuit's legal department.  The software will continue to function on El Capitan - you don't have to upgrade to Sierra on the first day it becomes available.  The reason the current software does not function is because Apple removed Garbage Collection from the OS.  This isn't something Intuit did.  It is a huge change if your program depends on Garbage Collection and contains millions of lines of code.

• IntuitBiscotti

Thank you IntuitBiscotti for your help.  Your input is what kept me from switching to another program.  Being honest, helping direct, and keeping your customers informed is what keeps them and keeps them coming back.  Budgeting is very important in business as with real.antiques.sa and knowledge is greatly needed to make the decisions.   Thanks again!

• sheshe6

I agree, sheshe6. Thank you!

• real.antiques.sa

how and when will we know if QB works with Sierra (the final version coming out on sept 20th)?

• kathyvertullo

Will you be sending us another letter or email stating its safe to upgrade our mac os?

• kathyvertullo

QuickBooks Mac 2016 works with the Sierra betas now.  QuickBooks Mac 2015 and prior currently do not.  If we update QuickBooks Mac 2015 to support Sierra there will be an update pushed.  You will get notification when you launch QuickBooks Mac 2015 that the update is available. In the release notes it will say "Supports Sierra".  QuickBooks Mac 2014 and prior are unlikely to be updated but there may be in product messages, also seen at startup of QuickBooks, with information about possible paths.

• IntuitBiscotti

Thanks IntuitBiscotti!!!  Way to keep us informed!  Now we can make plans and feel comfortable about our decisions.  We are only customers (doing what our business calls for) most are not software/computer people.  It is great to have someone like you to explain for Quickbooks changes.

• sheshe6

Thanks, IntuitBiscotti, for letting us know what you are able to share.

• mark

Apparently this has now been announced:
https://community.intuit.com/questions/1425761-i-have-been-told-that-mac-os-sierra-is-not-yet-available-and-i-couldn-t-possibly-have-a-non-beta-version-but-i-do

• IntuitBiscotti

I don't know if it will be available on Sept 20 when Sierra is released.  We are working on it but didn't know Apple's date until the iPhone launch.  Depends on testing.

• IntuitBiscotti

Great, thanks.

• mark

Try to have some patience everyone. macOS Sierra may release today (9/20/16) but that doesn't mean whatever version of QB you are running is going to suddenly stop working like some sort of evil magic released over the Internet. You do not have to upgrade to the new version as soon as it comes out and you probably shouldn't.  Whenever a major upgrade to an operating system is released there is a good possibility that various 3rd party applications will have problems with it. You have to give 3rd party developers such as Intuit a chance to get the official released software and test their products on it. I'm sure they've been doing their own testing and development of Quickbooks using the Sierra beta themselves but until the final released version comes out and they do additional testing on it and push out updates to Quickbooks, they are not going to make blind faith statements about whether or not each version of QB works with it. They will also be very likely to release an update to the currently release version of Quickbooks 2016 to make it work with Sierra. It is not a given but there is a chance they might even  release an update that would make the previous version (Quickbooks 2015) work on it, assuming they are still supporting that version and that there are no major architecture changes in Sierra that would make supporting QB2015 unfeasible. The farther you go back in versions, the less likely they are to continue releasing updates. It is the responsibility of each computer owner to hold off on updates until they evaluate all critical 3rd party applications to see if they will work on the new operating system. That might mean waiting a while before installing Sierra and checking various developer's websites for official statements indicating that their software works and is supported. Of course you then have to download and install any necessary updates for that 3rd party software. If you really want to be thorough or this is business critical or affects many users on your system, you should set up a test computer with your current operating system and all critical software installed, then upgrade to Sierra and test all the software you need to run. That way you can find out if there are any nasty surprises.  Next important bit of info. Someone mentioned not knowing what beta software is so some of you may not have heard of the concept of "dot-O" software. It is a general rule that business critical systems should never install dot-O software on their computers.  When software is initially released, it's version number is listed as something.0.  E.g. macOS Sierra's first release will be 10.12.0.  The .0 indicates that is is the initial release of that software. As they provide bug fixes and other corrections they will release 10.12.1, 10.12.2, etc. The first version is likely to have the most significant problems, discovered by the early adopters of that software and the the developer scrambles to fix those issues while you desperately wait for a fix.  If you are running a business you should be waiting for the .1, .2 versions before considering doing an upgrade. Finally, back up your system before major upgrades! People who do not make regular backups, install software the same day it is released, don't make sure their apps will work before upgrading to major versions of the operating system are asking for problems. Whew!

• Mommycott

I just updated to Sierra and my version of quickbooks stopped working.

• joseph

What version of quickbooks are you running? V17.1.5 R6 is the one that supposedly works with Sierra

• Mommycott

The copy on my computer won't open so I am not sure. I went to the website to download 2015 again and when I went to install it had the X over the icon as if it is not compatible.

• joseph

I don't think 2015 is supported on Sierra yet. To work now, you have to have 2016

• Mommycott

As soon as I found out that my Quickbooks 2013 stop working I went to buy the newest which is 2017. Will 2017 work?

• amorosso

There is no Quickbooks 2017 for Mac. The latest version for Mac is QB 2016

• Mommycott

Oh boy ok lol... I need to move my quick books from my now Sierra to one that is not. Could you explain what folders / files I would need. I always have a very fresh backup. Can I just move the whole app folder?

• amorosso

Sorry. I got it. That was very easy, I mean having a backup at least.

• amorosso

We've been doing everything we can to get a Sierra compatible 2015 out. But it required some special efforts.  Will release it as soon as it is ready - there are still some issues we are correcting and of course on going testing. 2016 is compatible already.  2014 and earlier will not be.

• IntuitBiscotti

When the update does get released for Sierra, how will we update our existing QB if Sierra won't even let us launch QB?  I have a big X on the QB icon in my dock right now, and couldn't launch it to receive the updates from intuit, even if they were released.

• edwin

BEWARE. I was just told by an operator that following the QB16 for Mac there will be no further updates for desktop ware for Apple's next OS version. They are forcing Mac users into the cloud. Good for Intuit shareholders to have predictable revenue stream, bad for SMBs who don't want their accounting on the web. Can anyone suggest a different desktop software? I'm really frustrated with Intuit. I'm not afraid of the cloud, I use it for many other software, but accounting, well, I want it local.

• jln

Does QB for mac 2016 v 17.1.5 R6 build 332 work with Sierra?  I am afraid to upgrade if it will not allow me to use Quickbooks.

• betsyclemons

As of today, QB for Mac 2016 works on macOS Sierra. I'm told by phone support that QB for Mac 2015 will also work soon, once they release an update.

This wasn't much help to me, unfortunately, when QB for Mac 2015 refused to start this morning when we sat down for an important meeting that required QB access. I've expressed my frustration to QB support.

Correction also, on the statement by intuibiscotti above — Apple released a general public beta in mid-July. At that point, the developer beta had been available for over a month. Intuit should have had updated versions of all currently supported versions of QB for Mac in the hands of customers before the full release of macOS Sierra, and arguably should have also taken advantage of the beta period as well.

• darius

We took advantage of the beta period. We've already released the fully compatible version of 2016.  We'll have the version of 2015 that is compatible out soon. Just because there was a three month or whatever of beta does not mean that the work required to fix the GC removal took three months.  It actually took three years.

• IntuitBiscotti

To answer the question of getting the new version of 2015, you will be able to download it from https://support.quickbooks.intuit.com/Support/ProductUpdates.aspx

• IntuitBiscotti

And it is not true as far as I understand it that there will be no further updates of QuickBooks Mac. It is my understanding that Intuit has committed to supporting QuickBooks Mac 2016 through 2019 (the normal "sunset" time frame).

• IntuitBiscotti

I can only report what the operator said. It was obvious that she was trying to sell the cloud version and that was the clincher - "the 2016 desktop software will not be updated after Sierra due to the fact that there are not enough people purchasing the Mac version." Scare tactic? Yup, it worked. Stupid? Yup, I should have known because the frantic/urgent email I received today only allowed me to upgrade by telephone. Of course allowing a sales person to move me over to the cloud. Poor form from Intuit. I expected better.

• jln

See my post from several days ago - Intuit/Quickbooks sent an email notice out in ~July 2016 announcing that QB for Mac will NOT work with Sierra and I should enroll in the online / cloud version which is OS independent; I responded with a Q - really? Intuit is abandoning Mac users? No response. When the Sierra GM was released I found that indeed our QB2015 was hosed; called Intuit and sales tried tried and tried again to get me to enroll in the cloud version because, I was told, after Sierra officially launches on 9.20.16, no hope for you desktop users - only the cloud will be available. Snooping around Intuit's web store I found the 2016 Desktop Mac version just sitting there, ready for Sierra. It was a high pressure lie from Intuit sales that attempted to circumvent the purchase of the 2016 QB Desktop version - which has worked very well through two GM's and the final release. Bottom Line: we sole proprietor little guys are targeted by Intuit for their bottom line. Don't let them fool your, the QB 2016 Desktop version works quite well, but you've go to buy it. Just like Adobe - screw the little guy in favor of the corporate bottom line.

• SJEd

Darius, it is your responsibility to check with the developers of the software you are running to make sure they are compatible with the OS version you are upgrading to. It is VERY common for developers to have a lag in time between when the OS comes out and they have updates to match. If you have business critical software running on your computer it is complete lunacy to update to a new OS on the day it is released without checking for compatibility issues.  E.g. When El Capitan came out, Canon didn't have a driver for my printer for about 3 weeks. When Mavericks came out I actually had to purchase a new version of Adobe CS 6 because CS 3 was not compatible at all. I had to wait several months for Paperless for Mac to come out with a compatible version. This is not unusual at all. It is also normal for a company to prepare their current version as a first priority before addressing older versions.

• Mommycott

@IntuitBiscotti I'm in the same boat as everyone else. Could you tell me if there is a way to be notified whenever a compatible update is available? Is there any notification system? Also, are you thinking days, weeks or months for a stable update. Not holding you to anything... just trying to do damage control on my end. Many thanks.

• cactused207

By the way, apparently Quickbooks Online doesn't work with the latest version of Safari (the browser that comes with macOS Sierra): https://community.intuit.com/questions/1425813-trouble-loading-quickbooks-online-after-upgrading-macbook-pro-to-macos-sierra-i-get-an-error-that-says-to-upgrade-my-safari-browser-any-known-problem-work-around

Fail again.

• darius

I am a programmer. For the record, "Garbage Collection" memory management has been deprecated by Apple since July 2012 (Mac 10.8 Mountain Lion). So, that means for the last 4+ years, Apple has been warning developers to transition away from Garbage Collection in favor of a method called ARC. Intuit has had 4+ years to plan for and implement this transition. It was in no way whatsoever a surprise move by Apple, and Intuit had plenty of time to prepare. I am thankful Intuit is updating QB 2015, but it should have been done prior to the Sierra release.

• jimgetzen

Mommycot — Should we have been more paranoid? Sure. But this kind of assumption about updates lets companies off the hook far too easily. Intuit is in the business of providing software that we all use to run our businesses, and specifically for people who are not accountants and not computer experts. As jimgetzen says, Apple has been warning developers of these changes for years. This is not a surprise change, and Intuit failed us by not being prepared.

• darius

jmgetzen - It took us three years to replace Garbage Collection with ARC in QuickBooks Mac.  We first had to go to 64 bit from 32 bit, which took a year.  And then it took two years to complete the transition to ARC.  As I said (here or elsewhere) Apple was good about letting us know it was going away, though as usual they didn't indicate _when_ it was going away until more recently (El Cap beta seeds I believe - going from memory there).  

Quickbooks Mac 2016 (with ARC) came out last year.  We had been working on it since shortly after Apple announced GC was depreciated.  It just took a long time - millions of lines of code mostly and testing.

• IntuitBiscotti

Anyway...  I'm a programmer, too.  I'll go back to working on the 2015 release that is Sierra compatible.

• IntuitBiscotti

Thanks, IntuitBiscotti. I, for one, appreciate your effort, presence and advice. For what it's worth, the support person on the phone this morning was also very kind and knowledgeable. A real pro. I told them so, and also told them I hope they share the recording of our call up the line to management.

• darius

Quicken, as a product, was spun off as a company because Intuit changed its business model in favor of online/cloud solutions. If it took you all four years to change the memory management of a single product, that seems to indicate Intuit is not applying the necessary resources. Maybe Quickbooks will go the way of Quicken? In any case, for the record, I have ZERO IMI ZERO intention of taking my business financial information to "the cloud".

So while I see from a post above that it appears Intuit will support the Quickbooks 2016 for roughly 3 1/2 more years, I'll probably pay for the update. Although, since Intuit has had at least years to make the changes, I think you should be providing the updates for at least 2014 for free.

And I'll investigate how many programs other companies are forcing people to pay for upgrades of because the software wasn't migrated to the new memory management system over the past several years.

• tim.rohrer

yeah I'm wondering a bit about this "normal sunset period" shouldn't 2014 be covered through 2017? thanks!

• ubernaut

Prior to 2015 Intuit followed a revenue recognition policy that realized revenue at the time the product shipped. This prevents updating those versions for newer OSs as that would be adding value to something that revenue had already been realized on - possibly using future work to influence the stock price.  This is part of Sarbanes Oxley law.  2015 and beyond they recognize revenue not at the time of shipping but rather over a period of time. This allows us to update the product for newer OS versions.

No one ever believes me when I tell them that. But that's the way it is. Fortunately 2015 and 2016 are in the newer period and we can update them to support Sierra.

The comment about resources and the time it takes to update memory management assumes that software development responds linearly to additional resources.  This isn't the case and is the central premise of the book "Mythical Man Month" by Fred Brooks which is one of the classics of computer engineering.

• IntuitBiscotti

Also don't take my word on the time lines for support.  This information needs to come from Intuit support, PR, and marketing official channels.  What I said is my understanding of it but I don't have decision authority.  Not even close.

• IntuitBiscotti

ok thanks for the clarification total bummer that i got to pay 150 if i want to use sierra :(

• ubernaut

@IntuitBiscotti I admit I'm not following the point about the Sarbanes Oxley law. I don't disbelieve you, I just don't understand what that has to do with taking care of customers?

• tim.rohrer

I am waiting to update to Sierra until QB says my 2015 will work with it, or if other features aren’t affected too much, maybe I won’t update at all. However, although I see that 2016 is expected to work through 2019, I want to know if my eventually updated 2015 will also be good until then or if I should be looking for alternatives, say, during the upcoming year? Also, I’m curious what the status of older versions of QB on PCs is. QB, can you respond to this?

• real.antiques.sa

Also, interestingly, I just noted that when I followed the link for updates provided above, there does appear to be a Desktop 2017 version, as an update was available for it. This wasn’t an option I could find when I first was notified about 2015 not working with the Beta version of Sierra. Moving to QB Online was the only option I could find.

• real.antiques.sa

Each version release is supported for 3 years. If you saw a QB 2017 desktop version it was Windows.

• SkinnyRaven

With due respect, I'm a developer, and Apple sent out a note on February 23, 2015 letting us know that Garbage Collection was deprecated in OSX Mountain Lion, and that apps should be updated to use Automatic Reference Counting. Just because you're team slept on making these updates doesn't mean you should be hitting customers with verbose emails and then passing the buck on to apple here in a community forum. It is disingenuous. Also, I will make note that the email I got from Intuit (being a 2014 user) is that my software is supported for use only on Lion and Mountain Lion. Considering I bought and used the software in Mavericks (the Mac OS from 2014), this also seems ridiculous. If your team can't patch two year old software, then the update to working software should be free. It's not like this stuff was purchased in 2010.

Finally, in regards to not updating to the new OS, I believe that it is true that apple will not silently update your computer. But this very summer, windows automatically updated computers from windows 7 professional to windows 10 - even if you unchecked the update box. In some cases, all you had to do was hit the "x" on a window prompting for an update, and that was permission to install a new os. Not everyone who posts is a dunce, and concern that their computer may be updated without their permission is not unfounded in this day and age.

• jesse.brayman

-

• jesse.brayman

i wonder if QB 2017 for mac will drop the day after the discount expires…

• ubernaut

There will be no QB Mac 2017.

• SkinnyRaven

is that official? why do people keep talking about it?

• ubernaut

For an official response you'll have to talk with Intuit.

• SkinnyRaven

well you sound pretty confident. :/ what happens when 2016 eventually breaks then we all go online like it or or not?

• ubernaut

I guess that's a personal choice, I will not be going to the online version.

• SkinnyRaven

what will you do go back to doing everything by hand? just curious :)

• ubernaut

Spreadsheets.

• tim.rohrer

lol if i knew this was gonna happen id never have stopped using them to begin with…

• ubernaut

Nothing is going away. There were updates and enhancement added to QB Mac 2016 in place of releasing a new year version.

• SkinnyRaven

Jesse Brayman - I'm not calling you or anyone else who posts a dunce. I completely understand that most people don't care the least about Apple memory management.  I only mention it because that is why the earlier version will not launch on Sierra.  Its not a surprise to us in any way.  But knowing something is deprecated and replacing it are two different issues entirely.

We didn't sleep on the Apple notice that GC was going to go away.  When Apple announced this (I think it was in 2014 that they marked it as deprecated) we were in the middle of a release cycle - we couldn't schedule any more work that cycle because we were already fully engaged.  The very next cycle though we began on the GC removal.  It took three years.  The first year we migrated from 32 bit to 64 bit, which ARC requires.  This isn't trivial with a multiple million line code base that still has dependencies on non Cocoa parts (C++ and C figure into it - we had managed to shim GC into those, too).  

The second year we moved from GC to ARC but we did it on a branch because of how risky that was.  The branching held it up for various reasons but we got further along.  The third year we fully committed.  That was the 2016 version which came out last September - way ahead of the release of Sierra.   We only knew when Apple was actually getting rid of GC at WWDC this June after we received the Sierra betas - before that it was deprecated but the actual date wasn't known.  (There are other things that are deprecated that we still use, like non-view based NSTables, that also are going to be very difficult to replace. Of course we have view based tables, too).

The delay in getting 2015 updated is due to it being impossible to merge the ARC changes back.  Memory management spreads to everything - the full code base.  Attempting to merge that is a nightmare not only for the merge but also for testing and stability.  Memory management bugs are also some of the worst ones for repeatability.

So we had to take a different approach and for that we needed permission from management, legal, and marketing.  And that took time. Meanwhile we were busy wrapping up the features that went out to the 2016 release. Once we wrapped that release we had the permission we needed and got to work on our 2015 update which will be released very, very soon. It takes a lot of testing - QuickBooks has to work well and there's a ton of things you can do in it and a very wide range of potential data sets.

We still screw up regularly.  We make mistakes.  Releases have bugs. Etc.  Our biggest mistake in all of this is perhaps that we should not have adopted GC in the first place (I believe we did in 2010).  But who knew then Apple would come out with a different automatic memory management feature? Still even that is kind of hard to say - not having to micromanage memory releases enabled us to do a lot more feature work between 2010 and 2016 than we otherwise could have achieved.

QB is a very large application that has code in it that dates back to 1992.  It is quite different from a Cocoa app (or even a Swift app) that is five years old.  It is more like Photoshop or Excel in that regard.  And as far as I know Photoshop is still using Carbon and Excel only went to 64 bit in the last month.  We've been pretty aggressive with QB on these things and in the case of GC being aggressive bit us.

• IntuitBiscotti

@IntuitBiscotti I, for one, appreciate the detailed response. And I suppose I will pay the upgrade price offered, but I will say I'm nervous about Intuit's commitment to stand-a-lone software and the Mac platform.

I will add a comment though regarding your write-up here. There is part that does not ring true and that has to do with the date Apple announced transitioning from GC to ARC. From these release notes (https://developer.apple.com/library/content/releasenotes/ObjectiveC/RN-TransitioningToARC/RevisionHistory.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40011226-CH99-SW1) it is clear they were telling developers what was coming way back in 2011. There are pages in those release notes that clearly reflect full deprecation for Mountain Lion was announced in 2013.

And you say it took three years, but if you didn't get notice until 2014, you'd still be working on it :-).

Again, I appreciate the detailed response, but I'm still in the camp that believes Intuit should be providing the upgrade for free.

• tim.rohrer

My bad - we implemented 64 bit memory in the 2014 release of QB Mac.  We would have begun work on that in the later half of 2012.

• IntuitBiscotti

i still think 2014 users should be able to expect a 3 year old program to continue to start at least and would agree that we should be given something a little better than a 25% discount. :/

• ubernaut

So if QB was free and the upgrade to Sierra was 179.00 where would you be?

• SkinnyRaven

Update to 2015 is here: http://http-download.intuit.com/http.intuit/Downloads/2015/US_R8/QuickBooksProMac2015.dmg

• IntuitBiscotti

The read me file doesn't indicate that it's compatible with macOS Sierra. Are we sure about this update?

• mark

I just downloaded. It works on Sierra so far.

• joseph

is that a free upgrade to 2015 now?

• ubernaut

It's a free update if you are running QB Mac 2015

• SkinnyRaven

I downloaded the update and installed it. At least I'm able to open QB and my DB seems in tact.

• mark

Thanks for the collaborative convo and to all of you who do the work so I can do my work. Just downloaded the .dmg. thank you for posting it

• mertisrules

Thanks Intuit for making this upgrade available.

• dr

I have QB2015 on my desktop and installed Sierra before upgrading to QB 2016.  Now I can't access my QB 2015.  Is there a way to upgrade to QB 2016 now?

• grant

You don’t have to. Just download the DMG that IntuitBiscotti posted, and drag the application from it into your Applications folder*.

http://http-download.intuit.com/http.intuit/Downloads/2015/US_R8/QuickBooksProMac2015.dmg

The new version should launch on Sierra, and it should be able to find that you’re registered based on the previous version’s preference file.

*Note that if your existing QuickBooks 2015 app is still in the Applications folder, the Finder will likely ask if you want to Replace the existing file, Keep both, or Cancel. If you choose to keep both, it may assume there’s some kind of consecutive numbering in place and will rename one of the files “QuickBooks 2016” (I already forget which one got renamed on my El Capitan Mac). So you might want to move/delete/backup the old version to avoid confusion.

• yonatron

Thanks.

• grant

Good point about the Finder rename.  We weren't expecting that!

• IntuitBiscotti

I downloaded QB 15 for Mac update to use with Sierra. It opens and works fine but I get a message that says I have to register before 15 uses. Went to register and asked for Lic # and Product #, where do I get these? I have used QB for years.

• arteez2

I downloaded QB 15 for Mac update to use with Sierra. It opens and works fine but I get a message that says I have to register before 15 uses. Went to register and asked for Lic # and Product #, where do I get these? I have used QB for years.

• arteez2

it would be on your receipt if you bought QB 2015.

• ubernaut

If I buy QB for Mac 2016, does that work with Sierra?

• arteez2

I logged in here https://camps.intuit.com/app/selfservice/index.html and can see every version of QB I've ever bought and all my license numbers

• Mommycott