Overrides can be hazardous to your health

Before doing an override you really have to look at what you are trying to override.  Often times perceived software errors are really operator errors.  Only override as a last resort after you are absolutely positive an override is necessary. 

I only override under extreme circumstances and am very cautious  of using this feature , as Archie stated you can lose tract of where you are easily

 True of Lacerte, as well.  It's very unusual that we'll override without calling tech support first.

Almost all the times I've called tech support in the last 2 years, the answer has been "We don't do it the way you want because the plain language of the forms instructions say to do it the way we did it."

ProSeries has an Override checker. Always run the Final Review with Show Overrides enabled. Clear them all before marking your client status sheets as complete.

Put the reasons for existing overrides on the client status sheet - I have mine set to always ask before close - annoying but saves me from forgetting to update the status with what I'm waiting for - info, final forms...... 

Use temporary overrides at the highest level possible - i.e. at the 1040 instead of worksheets.  With a file open, go to the menu - Information: Final Review - Un-check all boxes except List of Overrides. Clear all before double-checking return.

I agree with all you just wrote, Nansea, absolutely everything you listed should be done on every return. But I'm feel as though it assumes a lot more experience in tax prep than most of our OPs have, many of whom I think often override without even knowing exactly why; they just know they didn't get the answer they were looking for.  If I were in a large-multi-partner firm, I'd require partner-level written approval for every override, maybe even two partners.  But the preparers out there scuffling alone, trying to lure clients away from the HRBs and JHs of the world, don't have that luxury.  I think that for these folks, the soundest policy is just step away from the override button, and get help.

Archie,

I think that preparers with less expertise should rely more heavily on the software and absolutely stay away from over rides. I'm pretty sure that the error checking routines will not allow efile in many instances where the program has been overridden.  Most importantly, I've found that having to cross reference and search help files and government instructions when I'm not comfortable with the answer the software is providing has been a great learning resource for me and have cause me to do a lot of research.

 There are a variety of good reasons a.) to USE the override, b.) to always check for overrides as part of final review, and c.) to have an override feature.

All of these reasons do presuppose that you know your way around a tax return and are using the software as a tool not a crutch. BUT if you are new to income tax preparation, and/or the software, LEARNING effective use of overrides is good for you.

I use them to make the program do what I want it to do, right now, when some new feature or worksheet is failing to perform, and I'm with a client who expects an answer during the session. It takes the knowledge to know what the right answer is supposed to look like but I refuse to get hung up fighting software while someone's sitting there.

I use them for quick what-ifs, especially, when I'm answering the question on the phone where a 10 second pause is very long. And I use them to check how the program is handling the issues - did I miss a new limitation I need to consciously keep on top of my brain?

And to check that I can still do the math - on paper and mental quick estimates, so I don't rely on the computer when it is actually in error, and so my quick estimates and final answers are always correct in logic and math - especially in face to face sessions where I prefer not to be too slow or stupid.

People these days have so much confidence in their software.......... guess I'm just too jaded for that.

I've always got the difficult stuff no one else knows how to handle. I often run into - the form I need isn't ready but the Taxpayer needs to plan his tax debt, Intuit didn't think it through and doesn't have what I need in the program, Intuit over thought it and now my easy facility is buried in 3 new Smart Worksheets, the IRS still has to decide how they want it reported, etc. When it comes to software - GIGO. (Garbage In - Garbage Out)

Nancia,

I have not NEEDED to override the program more than a couple of times in the last few years. In the few cases where there was a software issue, I contacted Intuit to find out how and when they would fix the problem.  In most cases, I simply wait for the fix.

I think our fundamental difference is our workflow. I don't think I prepare more than a dozen returns a year with the client at my desk. I bought a small CPA's practice several years ago who spent the better part of tax season with a client at his desk. Going back to the early days for Proseries, he often had issues of program functionality  and would frequently call me with questions.  It was always an emergency because the client at his desk.  When I obtained the practice, I immediately retrained the clientele  to my workflow. (I threatened to charge them more if they wanted to watch me perform).

I find that preparing returns with the client present to be a distraction and waste of time. Their tendency to interrupt with questions that pop into their heads, or the discussions and pleasantries and what-ifs just slow me down. For me, it is far more efficient to intake information either by mail or in person. A quick review of their paperwork and discussion of any different or unusual events, each year is generally sufficient for me. Tax planning and review is generally done by phone.

So, I don't have the pressure of the client 'over my head' and the time I save allows me the freedom to follow the programs workflow. If there is a change to a reg or limit that I am not aware of or something just doesn't look right, I have the time and opportunity to deal with it at my own pace.

btw... welcome back

Skylane - you persist in misspelling my name even though it is in my signature -Nansea - you sail the boat on the SEA but there is no C. I haven't left - I'm just being even shorter with my time and answers. Otherwise I either need to wear earplugs or pull the plug on everyone's internet - since I'm either going to hear laughter or sputtering, or get asked the answer to someone's question on this forum, anyway..........until the tax holidays are over....about one more week......

As far as I'm concerned the taxes ARE the client, and the better the client understands their tax position, the less headaches they bring me. What I really like about the interview process, besides getting all my questions answered in one sitting without more phone calls, is that a short return can be ready to check and file - in 15 minutes, tell them their total refund and take the payment. Longer returns can be complete in one hour. Bigger ones take 2 hours. The ones with involved accounting take 2 one or two hour visits and whatever it takes in the middle. I know exactly what my work in will be, and how much I can afford to take on.

I much prefer the one touch system - into the file once, everything considered and all complete, closed by the time the client walks out the door. That's for your standard personal and small business return. But I've been doing taxes since carbon paper - now there's pressure, one mistake and you're recopying the return....... I sold my income tax practice and don't do personal returns anymore, except a few for my disabled friends, but I still oversee bigger, and much more complex projects - some of which involves income taxes and estate taxes. Nothing beats asking all the questions the first time, and sending my clients away happy, completed, and better trained - I've always discounted for having all the data delivered on time. If all the rest of my projects could be handled so neatly.........

I never prepare a return with the client present.  That probably tells you more about my level of insecurity than anything else; but almost every time I've ever done it, I've made some stupid mistake, or wasted a bunch of time trying (and often failing) to look something up.  So no one gets to see the sausage being made.

None of my clients get their returns in less than 3 days.  Since I'm solo, I have no one to review my work, so I do a thorough "cold" review of each one a couple of days after I've completed it.  This has saved my backside so many times that I now never even consider preparing a client's return on the spot.  Well, maybe a W-2 +Sch A, but nothing more complex.

 Archie: Preparing it on the spot is one thing. Letting it out the door without a meticulous and thorough review - never happens. But repairing errors that fail review, and having to tell a client why their refund just became a bill because something wasn't considered or calculated (by me) - well that brings me up to sharp level real fast. That's how I keep my edge, and even now that I don't have to keep that edge so sharp - I'm afraid of losing that annual tune-up. That's why even the miserable carbide grinders on this site aren't going to stop me from pouring the honing oil on, and sharpening........

Nansea: The incorrect spelling was based on incorrect pronunciation. Thanks for the correction. I have no problem with your methodology; just find mine to be more effective and efficient for me. I think I educate my clients pretty well and they usually call before they do stupid things like raping their IRAs to pay down credit card debt. I always find alternatives for them. Retention is also pretty good. Most of my clients stay with me a year or two past their normal life spans; (I get the 1041's as well).

Archie: My formal training in this field consists of a degree in banging my head against the wall for the last twenty something year. So my practices and methodology is pretty much self developed. A lot of what I do has been affirmed on this forum and I've picked up a lot of new tricks as well.

Skylane - for what it's worth, I never have and never will do a return with a client breathing down my neck.  If they want a return NOW, I'll gladly give them directions to the local H&R Block office.

I rarely do the return with the client present BUT I always have an in person or over the phone  interview with the client and during the Interview process I learn often quite a bit more than just the basic information and this aids me in the return preparation and subsequent questions that I call them about before we get together with the final return

Thanks, Skylane. I expect everyone to use their own methods - but many of the questions on this forum are about "methods". Everyone's work style can suit themselves. I do expect everyone to use the same tax law, accounting laws, and current legal precedent.  

On re-reading Archie's question - I'd like to know if Arch ever found that the override review wasn't showing all his overrides?