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05/24/2012 at 04:51PM PDT
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haggisman1
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11/30/10 5:18am PST
Viewed by asker 12/05/10 5:47am PST

Non Filer

Had a person come to me who hasn,t filed a tax return since 1995, and wants to get up to date, at this time. What is the best way to go about this?

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Happy Tax
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11/30/10 5:51am PST
The solution

You'll find different opinions on this, and even my advice might be tailored to the client's specific circumstances, such as what the returns would likely show once they're prepared.

However, I would begin with a Form 8821 to enable me to phone the IRS Practitioner Priority line to determine what the IRS shows for this client and what years actually need to be filed. Going back that far, it's likely that the IRS would have lost interest in the older years and/or would have filed SFRs. Also, the IRS would be able to fax to you many of the inputs (a "Wage & Income Transcript") to handle the returns that are still on the table. I definitely would not head off in any direction before knowing what the IRS expects since you'll only have to reconcile things with the IRS expectations sooner or later anyway. The IRS should let you know which returns need to be filed and which ones would be a waste of time at this point.

In lieu of a Form 8821, you can also handle the call to the IRS Practitioner Priority line as a 3-way call with the client. There are mixed opinions on the prudence of doing it this way. I've never had a problem with it, but if you have an excitable or argumentative client, you probably don't want to be part of a 3-way call between him and the IRS.

Once you know which returns are still in play insofar as the IRS is concerned, then you'll know how to proceed.

A strong word of caution. Make sure you get a substantial portion of your fee up front, at least 50%. Clients such as this are quite convincing that they're ready to see these matters through to a conclusion, but they quickly lose interest once they see it's going to cost money and they'll actually be required to pay you and the IRS. That's the best way to sort out whether you're going to be wasting your time. If the client can't or won't pay a substantial portion of your fee up front, then he hasn't really reached the mindset to follow through. Trust me, no money upfront means that ultimately you will have found this client to have been a colossal waste of your time.

Also, when a client stops filing, it's almost always because he determined that he would owe for the year that he began skipping. The client needs to know that the day will come when he'll most likely have to write a check. If he's not willing to accept that outcome, then he's not ready to proceed. 

I tell clients such as this that what they've done is tantamount to not going to see a dentist for several years. When you finally do go, it's not going to be painless and it's not going to be cheap, but you have to do it or live with deteriorating consequences.

All this having been said, I would likely make the call to the IRS PPL at no charge to the client and request the Wage & Income Transcripts for the years still on the table. That shows the client that you can put the wheels in motion with just a phonecall, but it also gives you a good readout of what the returns will involve so you can agree on a fee. Of course, the Wage & Income Transcripts don't tell the whole story of any tax return, but they're an excellent jumping off point.

 

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11/30/10 6:02am PST

Happy Tax has given you some excellent advice but I just wanted to reinforce his point about your fee.  We have had several clients come in over the past year who are years behind in filing and "want to get caught up".  Either the IRS finally put the squeeze on or their situation changed.  BUT on further conversations with the client, when fees are discussed, suddenly they are not always so anxious to file all those back returns.  Be very careful.  If this is a client you know, you might want to work out a payment arrangement up front.  We have finally begun to do so.  Happy's idea of knowing exactly what years you are facing was the best one for deciding how to proceed.  Try not to have too many surprises.  That is when the time adds up and the fees don't get paid.  Good luck.

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11/30/10 6:16am PST

In our practice, we have stopped doing this altogether.  Mostly because of the fees issues mentioned by your other two responses.

In our area, we have a tax attorney who specializes in OIC.  We refer every one to that practice.  He prepares the returns and almost always an OIC becomes a necessity.  The interesting part of that is that now that tax attorney sends us "paying" business clients.  Since he specializes in personal returns, this has been a good fit.

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11/30/10 9:36am PST

Probably 10 percent of my business is in past year returns.  I love them, but there are problems with getting paid sometimes.   I will usually call the PPL while the client is there and get verbal permission to discuss the issues with the IRS.  I will get the transcripts I need, and do the power of attorney later if I need to.  (Proseries has the 2848 in its forms, and practically fills itself out.)

Happy is right though, call to make sure you are doing the returns that are required.  I've had a number of clients sayings that they haven't filed in 2 years, but when I call the PPL, I find that they haven't filed in 7 years.

You also need to know whether the IRS has filed for them, (SFR means Substitute for return).  You can replace an SFR, but it needs to be mailed to a different address.  You need to ask about the date of assessment to determine the collection statute date.

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ArchieLeach
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12/01/10 6:35am PST

I ALWAYS get a substantial retainer from nonfilers, and have them refill it before it's all used up.  Nonfilers are the only broad category of clients that, more often than not, are collection problems for me.

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IRMN
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12/01/10 7:45am PST

I don't do a lot of bulk filers, but they do tend to pop up in small batches when they do show up.  I have never requested money up front and I have never been burned --------------------------- well not yet anyway.  I guess if someone looked and sounded so shady that I was afraid of getting paid I probably would decline the work anyway but so far that hasn't been the case.  Like 99% of the rest of my clients, most people that show up on my doorstep have been referred by other clients so I take into consideration who sent them over.  Besides, everybody has a story, it's just that some of those stories are a bit flakier than the others.

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ArchieLeach
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12/01/10 8:43am PST

Usually, I just turn down this kind of work, but I'm a sucker for a good sob story.  So in the last 15 years or so, I've had two long-time non-filers who, in a word, bolted.  When we began to get a handle on their potential tax liability, they simply disappeared, along with their families.  A third non-filer died in the middle of the project, and his spouse didn't feel obligated to pay for my work.   Next time it happens, they'll bolt or die with me owing them! 

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Thanks everyone who replied. It will help me as to whether I want to take this on or not.

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