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05/24/2012 at 04:51PM PDT
Important Announcement! A planned system-wide upgrade will take place over the Memorial Day Weekend in the US (From Thurs, May 24, 2012 at 6 pm PDT thru Tues, May 29, 2012 at 5 am PDT). This includes QuickBooks, QuickBooks Payroll, Point of Sale, & Salesforce.com. This is only for US based products. This does not affect QuickBooks Online customers! During this time, you can shop, but can’t place orders online, activate products or update account info. We apologize for the inconvenience & thank you for patience while we improve our infrastructure to better serve you. International versions are unaffected. For more info, see our community discussion.
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11/19/08 6:35pm PST
Viewed by asker 11/19/08 6:37pm PST

DMS - The DB Size problem and Planning Ahead

I am writing because I hope to help anyone new starting with DMS (or with only a year or two into it) to avoid some of the problems we've run into.

DMS has a size limitation - once the database (DB) exceeds 10 GB it becomes unstable and can easily corrupt. Last year our DB - with 7000-odd clients, 4 years of returns, and a size of around 40 GB - got corrupted. As our backups had also corrupted (since we had no idea the DB was going bad), it took us five days just to get the DB rebuilt and running. The advice from Lacerte to prevent this in the future was to break it up into smaller DBs of no more than 10 GB each.

The basic problem with multiple databases is that the only way you can make sure that the tax return you are printing to DMS from Lacerte goes to the right database is to have that database open while printing it. You CANNOT point to a specific DMS database in the Lacerte tax options. And you cannot create a desktop shortcut that both starts DMS and opens a particular DB - you have to choose the right DB from the dropdown menu in DMS. And, to make matters worse, the only place where you can tell which DB you have open is at the bottom of the DMS window where the DB path shows up in tiny little letters. (There are lots of older preparers who aren't very computer savvy and have eye problems in our office, so these are real issues for us). I have sent in Feedback asking Lacerte to address these issues to help those of us who have to go the multiple DB route - hopefully they will listen.

Breaking up the DB can go one of two ways - by Alphabet or by Year.

The biggest plus about Alphabet is that it allows you to keep all your client's info across tax years in one spot (especially the issues). And if you go this route, it's easier to break up an existing DB. But your preparers will have to stay on their toes making sure they have chosen to open the correct Alphabet DB when they print their tax returns to DMS (i.e, E-F, not S-Z). And the real negative is that, as Lacerte does not appears to be interested in dealing with the DB size problem, somewhere down the line you'll end up with a separate DB for each letter of the alphabet.

Yearly has a singular practical advantage in that because 85-odd% of your preparer's returns in any given year will be only for that year, they will rarely have to switch DBs in DMS. And once a tax year is finished, you'll know that year's DB size will not grow much larger in the ensuing years. The negative side is that your issues tab will be essentially obsolete, if you use it to pass on general client information (like "crazy taxi driver who will try to make you tell him how much income he should report") - unless you remember to copy the note to each of the DBs. And the absolute biggest negative is that to break up an existing DB into yearly ones is a nightmare on wheels.

I'm going to briefly describe what you have to do to break up your DB into either grouping so you don't have the same problems as me. Oh, and one more very important thing you need to know - deleting files from a database WILL NOT reduce the size of the database; you have to delete and then export the remaining files to a new DB to get a smaller size.

ALPHABET.

Create a new DB and give it an easy-to-remember name (DMS A-D). Open your old DB and make sure any issues that you want to show up in the new database are unchecked or they won't copy (yes, you have to go through the entire DB client by client to do this). Choose File - Export and select Export to an existing DMS database. For your destination, choose the new DB location. For the clients - and this is important - first sort the list that shows up by Client (click on the word "Client" at the top of the list - this is essential if you mix all Individual, Corporate, etc. clients in one DB). Then click on the first client of your alphabet group to highlight it, scroll down to the last person, hold down your shift key and click on that person to select that entire group. Now let it run. For your reference, it took me 8 hours to send 1400 clients (A - D) with five years of tax information over the the new DB. And then, unfortunately, I found out that I had a 13.8 GB database. So, do one letter at a time and check the size of your DB as you do it. :) Repeat until you have all the DBs you want.

YEARLY

This one gets UGLY if you have a large database. You might just want to do want we're considering (if the boss chooses this route) and just leave the DB as is and from this point on, create a new one each year with just that year. But if your DB isn't the nightmare ours is, here's what to do. Let's pretend we're starting by making a 2007 DB. Make a copy of your existing DB - VERY IMPORTANT - let's call it DMS-COPY. Go in that copy and client by client, delete any tax year folders that aren't TY07. Also delete any clients that have empty TY 07 folders. (It took us 7.5 hours to get through 1400 clients doing this - and you're going to have to do it again and again for each tax year DB you create). Now even though you think you have a 2007 DB, you don't. Thanks to DMS not shrinking in size when you delete files, you are now going to have to create a new DMS 2007 DB and export all those clients into it (don't forget to uncheck the issues items - if that matters). When you export, just select All Clients. After 8 or so hours, you will have a DMS 2007 DB that is much smaller than your original DB. Now go delete the DMS-COPY DB (which is useless now) and create another copy of the original DB. Repeat the preceding steps for each tax year you are going to create from the old DB.

As you can see, if you allow your DB to grow beyond the 10 GB size and then decide to break it up, you will have a lot of work on your hands. It is far better to start planning for growth in the first two years of tax returns and implementing those changes than to wait as long as we did. In our defense, no one warned us the DB would become so unstable.

We are still debating across our office which method to use. We'll probably go with Alphabet because we like having all the client info in one spot (which was the whole point of DMS in the first place) and it will save us on the heavy cost of coverting to Yearly. But there is no doubt that yearly would make the day-to-day operation go faster and that, in the long run, it would be easier to manage new years. So, what you do is up to you. Just, please, if this is a program you're planning on using for awhile be sure to give some serious thought as to how much you expect your DB to grow and how you will handle it - I wouldn't wish this situation on my worst enemy! LOL! :)

Good luck!

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11/20/08 8:49am PST

Our DMS database goes back to 2000... I see we have cracked the 10 GB limit, and was fthinking about archiving the older portion of the database which we more than likely will use quite rarely. I'm wondering what your firm has considiered about archiving -- was that ever an option for you? Would you consider it in the future for files more than 5 years old?

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11/24/08 8:17am PST

Actually, you can open a specific DB via a shortcut. Take a look at the following article.

http://sdgptkprdap.ie.intuit.com/contactcenter/php/search.docmd=displayKC&ampdocType=kc&ampexternalId=kb1012536&ampsliceId=1&ampdocTypeID=DT_KB_1_1&ampdialogID=3928836&ampstateId=1%200%2039364...

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11/24/08 8:25am PST

Actually, the first link i posted is not accurate.

http://ptknova.intuit.com/self...

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01/08/09 12:21pm PST

Is this really still an issue??? I remember reading about this 2yrs ago... just figured that by the time our DB grew to a problematic size that the newer versions would accommodate more data. So, let me get this straight, as of 2008's DMS release, there is still a database size problem for 10gb+?

Would really like someone from Intuit to chime in

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01/09/09 6:06am PST

There are no longer size constraints - here is an excerpt from a conversation I had with a client just the other day: "We have 2 databases--- one for current clients and one for lost clients (archive)

--current database has 3,758 Clients and goes back to the start of DMS (TY03)---59.1 GB

--lost clients database has 1,121 Clients—4GB"

Bill

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03/07/09 12:12pm PST

I just left a question similar to this on the boards regarding ProSeries DMS which I assume is the same as Lacerte? Can I now assume there is no corruption issues with the database due to excessive size? Our current DMS database reports a size of 128GB with about 84,000 files. It seems to work fine generally other than performance issues with some functions such as deleting a blank folder which can take several minutes. Deleting an individual document isn't so bad, but a folder takes forever. Only other problem I have run into and I'm not sure if it's related to this issue, is I use excel to make workpapers for clients and save them in DMS along with pdf files. I do have times when I can open an excel worksheet and make edits, Cntrl S to save and close the worksheet then when I re-open it, my last edits are gone, not saved. I have discovered that if I go to the DMS temporary folders in the temp directory, I can recover the edited worksheet and copy it into DMS or open and save there again. But if I don't notice it in time before the temp files are cleaned, I loose the updated worksheet. That is a killer. In addition, I tried to also save some Lotus 123 worksheets in DMS that I use on one client. When I open it and view it is fine, but as soon as I make any changes and save, I loose the entire document including the original copy. It reports a 0 byte file and can't be recovered. It is also not in the temporary folders. Consequently, I suggest NOT using lotus 123 with DMS!!!!

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03/14/09 8:24am PDT

Thank you for the information.

In response to the 1/9/09 posting by LacerteGuru: our database is 63GB and we have been experiencing significant problems and need to repair it often. I think the size is still a problem.

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03/16/09 6:55pm PDT

What type of problems? Are you running AV software?

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03/29/09 12:13pm PDT

Our DB is also around 60GB and I have to repair it approximately every other day. It's really quite annoying to say the least.

Intuit support hasn't been very helpful either. When I originally called about errors, it took about a week to get a "priority" call back. And by then I had figured out how to repair it myself! But only using an "special" db repair program given by the first support tech. The distributed DBREPAIR utility refuses to work because it says the DB is "in use" even when it isn't. Of course, the "priority" tech guy blamed AV software and wouldn't listen when I told him that wasn't the problem...

Anyway, that's the end of my DMS rant. At this point I'm just trying to get through tax season, crossing my fingers that endless "repairing" will continue to work...

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03/29/09 12:50pm PDT

"the "priority" tech guy blamed AV software and wouldn't listen when I told him that wasn't the problem..." - so then what id the problem? If you know the problem but wouldn't heed the advice of the tech, then why are you having to repair daily? I suspect if you have AV software running and haven't excluded the DMS database, then this will continue. They have fixed hundreds of folks in this same pickle....

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That's the thing, I don't know what the problem is. I just think it's not an AV problem. All I really know is the tables/indexes get corrupt every other day or so and I have to repair them. And the included repair utility continues to complain about the database being "in use" when it isn't. I have no idea the root cause of the problems, or even if they are related...

And yes, I have excluded the DMS database folder from the AV. That was one of the first things I did when the very first tech mentioned it...

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