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04/19/2013 at 09:23AM PDT
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taxprep12345
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taxprep12345
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03/24/11 12:20pm PDT
Viewed by asker 03/25/11 9:03am PDT

Client wanting to show rental income & expenses on Sch. C

ProSeries

Client files a joint return.  She works, makes a $100,000 + per year, husband on social security and manages their 6 rental units (in 3 houses).  With the depreciation deduction they're showing big losses each year ($30,000 to $40,000) but they can't take them as they get phased out due to their income.  She's asking, "can't we file the rental income and expenses on Sch. C since it's all my husband does.  He works at it well over 750 hours/yr., does all the upkeep, changes the linens, etc."

What do you think?

Thanks.

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Dusty2004
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03/24/11 12:23pm PDT

Can you show me something in the tax code that lets you think you can file this as a Schedule C?

Dusty

Just how BIG will the tax bill passed between Election Day 2012 and New Years Day 2013 be?
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taxprep12345
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03/24/11 12:34pm PDT

The following is from the I.R.S. web site on Reporting Rental income. I think this is where the taxpayer is coming up with this.

"Generally, Schedule C is used when you materially participate in your residential rental activity.
Providing substantial services -
If you provide substantial services that are primarily for your tenant's convenience, such as regular cleaning, changing linen, or maid service, you report your rental income and expenses on Schedule C, Profit or Loss From Business, or Schedule C-EZ, Net Profit From Business."

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ArchieLeach
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03/24/11 3:01pm PDT

I'd like to see a link to that site.  It doesn't make sense to me.

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taxgirlshannon
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03/24/11 4:59pm PDT

tp12345- Which of the following services noted below does your client provide for the tenants?  I doubt any.   They still get the $25,000 subject to the 150K income phase out.  Which they have not adjusted for inflation since it was put into place.  Write your congressman about that, and have your clients write him/her too!!!

"Generally, Schedule C is used when you materially participate in your residential rental activity.
Providing substantial services -
If you provide substantial services that are primarily for your tenant's convenience, such as regular cleaning, changing linen, or maid service, you report your rental income and expenses on Schedule C, Profit or Loss From Business, or Schedule C-EZ, Net Profit From Business."
 

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taxprep12345
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03/24/11 5:41pm PDT

First, here's the link Archie asked for -

http://www.irs.gov/publication...

What you point out may be the catch.  That what the I.R.S. is referring to here is something more like a B&B.  The guy claims to change the linens but I've been doing their taxes for a number of years and they'd never mentioned it before.  I ran across something in a tax book about having to make an election on "the original" return.  Doesn't specify what "original" exactly means but I assume they mean on the return when they start renting a particular property out.  In the case I'm dealing with it would be changing horses in mid-stream a bit.

 

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dhhcpa
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03/24/11 12:31pm PDT

 Why wouldn't he qualify as a real estate professional and be able to deduct $25,000?  

Ohhhh, Faerie Dust!!
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sjrcpa
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03/24/11 3:00pm PDT

If he is a real estate professional, he could deduct all losses.  $25,000 limit does not apply.

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03/24/11 12:33pm PDT

What do I think?  Not much.  It goes on schedule E unless you know of some dark, deep recesses of the tax code Dusty and I aren't aware of.

Ninety percent of tax preparation is half mental.
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Sue928
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03/24/11 1:37pm PDT

If he meets the material participation requirements, then he can take some of the loss. It still goes on Sch E.

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sjrcpa
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03/24/11 3:02pm PDT

They could take some of the losses if modified AGI is less than $150,000

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03/24/11 12:36pm PDT

So your client goes to these rentals and changes their sheets, sweeps, does dishes, laundry?

Dusty

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dhhcpa
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03/24/11 12:40pm PDT

 As Dusty said, and I would add, "Is the only person who does those things?"

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taxprep12345
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03/24/11 1:18pm PDT

That's what they're claiming.  That the husband is the only one maintains these six units (3 in each house).

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taxprep12345
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03/24/11 1:19pm PDT

He lives next door to the 2 rental houses.

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03/24/11 12:47pm PDT

I think what you are referring to is called a hotel.  Do your clients own a hotel or rental properties?

Ninety percent of tax preparation is half mental.
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03/24/11 1:30pm PDT

If material participation is an issue, the husband and wife can elect to have both of their contributions of time added together and then elect to treat all of the properties as a single activity for treatment as material participation under Reg 1.469-4(c).  They attach a statement to the return which they each must sign that basically state the above information including the Reg..

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taxprep12345
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03/24/11 2:52pm PDT

Material participation doesn't seem to be a problem as the guy apparently spends over 750 hrs/yr. on the rentals and has no other job or employment.  I've been doing taxes for many years and have never tried to slide rental income over to Sch C so I'm not real comfortable with it.  But then I see on the I.R.S. web site, "Generally, Schedule C is used when you materially participate in your residential rental activity."  So I've been looking for something in black and white that says they can't or shouldn't.

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Sue928
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03/24/11 3:26pm PDT

The other types of rental businesses that you would put on a Sch C is like a Rent-All, U-Haul, Video rentals, party rentals, tent rentals. These are businesses that are "rental" businesses reported on Sch C not E

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03/24/11 2:57pm PDT

Rentals where "services" are performed for the "tenants" are considered to be income subject to self-employment tax and properly entered on Schedule C.

IRMN alluded to this.  This would be like a boarding house, bed and breakfast, motel, adult group homes, etc. 

If the business operation resembled this type of operation, I'd say "go for it"

"Anyone may arrange his affairs so that his taxes shall be as low as possible; he is not bound to choose that rnethod which best pays the treasury..." Judge Learned Hand - U S Court of Appeals
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03/24/11 9:25pm PDT

What a client wants is not the deciding issue. Your job is to know the tax law, get the facts, and prepare a correct tax return.

When anyone doing nothing needs help, I will gladly help that person do nothing.
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