8879 signature

I have, but only on rare ocassion where I am close friends, etc and have a "verbal: go ahead" over the phone. I have also met plenty who have exercised similar discretion.....

Bill

P.S Nothing I say here can ever be relied on as the honest truth :-)

I agree with Bill-Guru, only with verbal okay, in very special circumstances, in other words, very rarely.

The IRS does go to small firms and check the 8879 signature forms, looks at the date on them and checks your computer to see if the dates are the same or within the 3 days. This happened to a preparer friend of mine. They just stopped in during tax season and asked to check the forms. They looked at 3 or 4 clients. If you don't have the signed forms or have efiled within the 3 days, I think they can prevent you from efiling in the future. I am not sure of what the consequences are, but I wouldn't take a chance on it.

In my 20 years of e-filing, I have never filed without a client's signature. Occasionally, if the client is anxious to get the refund, I'll attach an Adobe Acrobat PDF 8879 to an email for the taxpayer and spouse to sign and have them fax it back to me. That is only if I have a good payment history with the client. In my letters to the client, I state that their tax return will be filed upon my receipt of the "signed Form 8879 and payment of the attached invoice". I also request (and 98% of the time receive) a $300 retainer.

I was actually audited by the IRS a few years ago to see that I was in compliance with my license to e-file. They checked signatures and my letter from the IRS giving me approval each year.

So, he was willing to e-file without the signature, but did not make sure that the correct date was on the form?

I will NOT E-file wihtout the signed form.
When e-filing, I INSIST that both spouses come to pick up the return so that it can be signed then.

What if they send you the signed efile forms and not a payment? What do you do then? We only have 3 days to do the efile? I am talking about returns that you have to mail to the client, not ones that come into your office.

We require our clients to sign an engagement letter that clearly states that we won't file the return without payment. We also accept credit cards. Almost always, we will call the out of state client, give them the results of their return, tell them we are emailing the 8879, and ask for a credit card payment, right then. We never have clients balk at it.

If they owe at deadline, we'll send them the extension so they can pay it, but we still file the extension till we get payment.

We actually switched over to the methodology of collect before filing a couple years ago and it was a little sketchy for a couple clients the first year, but now they all come in, check in hand, ready to pay. Its worked out really well.

What about the ones who "forget" their checkbook?

I take VISA and MC for that reason.

They go on our "Pending Info" shelf. When they pay, we prepare. Yes, we accept MC, VISA, AmEx and Discover.

I also accept credit cards, this is the first year. I have a policy that I don't give them their copy of the tax return until they pay me, with very few exceptions. The exceptions are my accounting clients, whose business usually writes the check.However, I was under the impression that if they sign the efile forms, we have to efile them within 3 days and we cannot hold up the efile waiting for a check. So, if they don't pay you, do you ask them to sign a new form or redate the original one when you get the payment?

If we feel like the 8879 has gone stale, we do ask for another signature. But generally, the client is sending us their form and and payment at the same time.

This is interesting. I didn't realize the 3-day rule was for the client's signature vs the e-file being sent thru. I thought it was between the time the government approved the e-file, and the day you would mail the 8453 with whatever attachments were on it.

If it's really true that the client's signature might "go stale" and require re-signing, that sounds like such a hassle that paper would be easier! You mail them the return whenever it's appropriate, and nobody can tell you when you must mail it!

I hope the 3-day rule really does apply simply to the acceptance vs. the later 8453, and not client's signature on 8879 vs sending the e-file over the wires.

I certainly don't see any wording on the 8879 form to the effect of a 3-day rule and so on. I have also not noticed any diagnostics from Lacerte, about "if you're putting in an override date on which the client is signing the 8879, you must initiate the e-file within 3 days."

Pub 1345 pg 27 deals with "stockpiling" of returns. "stockpiling refers to waiting more than three calendar days to submit the return to the IRS
once the ERO has all necessary information for origination"

Even with the 3 day rule I believe efiling is easier. You don't have to take the time to give envelopes to the client. You know that the IRS & state has received and accepted the returns and the refund gets to the client much faster. My clients love it that they don't have to mail the returns. It saves them postage and time. Also, in my state, CA, efiling is mandatory, unless you prepare 99 returns or less. However, once you hit 100 returns in a year and efile returns, even if you drop below 100 returns, you have to continue to efile.

I just read somewhere on the IRS site (or it may have been one of their tax newsletter e-mails, can't remember) that if you file more than TEN returns now you HAVE to use e-file, unless there's a reason the return must be paperfiled. Used to be 99 I think,.

Also, now I'm curious. I do many "mail in" returns. I did not know of this 3 day period to file after signature. WHAT IF the e-file form takes more than 3 days to get back to you from date of signature? Should we be asking the clients to POST DATE?

I was audited several years back. The IRS DID warn me they were coming, maybe they don't do that anymore. They do a sampling of your forms to make sure they're all in order and signature dates are correct and so on. Having a REALLY neat, organized file helps!

Also, it's been my understanding that a faxed signature is not good enough?

Also, when we mail these returns, or the client takes them home for signature, how do we KNOW who signed it? Are we required to have BOTH people sign IN FRONT OF US? In many clients situations (work hours, etc.) it's very difficult for them both to come, and so one spouse will take it home for signature. I doubt the IRS has a signature matching system, but I wouldn't be surprised if somewhere along the way people just sign for their spouses without our knowledge. Are we the "signature police" now too?

Come to think of it, I don't think I got a letter of approval this year. I can't remember! But I'm able to e-file. Is the IRS still sending these? Maybe mine got lost in the mail. Now I'm worried.