Poor Auto Import Results

I just loaded the software today, and must say that so far I am NOT impressed. I, too, loaded a 4-up W-2 that was freshly printed. Though the program did recognize the client and many of the numbers, it did not import either the Federal or California EINs or the employer address (the stuff that is a pain to enter for e-filing). So I would have to enter it all over again! And with the 1099-R that I tried (a common one from California State teachers), it did not recognize the client or ANY of the information except some obscure numbers.

My scanner is one of the recommended ones (the 5120) and seems to scan quite well. I do not think the software is ready for prime time!

Hello,

Thank you for providing your candid feedback about your first experience using Source Doc Auto-Entry. We have already been working to address some of the issues you described and will be releasing a product update soon.

Some of these issues may be because of your W2 format. Would it be possible to tell me what software you use to print W2's? In addition, Paychex is the most difficult payroll company format for OCR to interpret due to the variation in the typeface throughout the form. You will see different results from different W2 providers.

If you wouldn't mind, please send me an e-mail at kathy_kirkendall@intuit.com and I'd like to ask you some additional questions about the W2's you used so that we can work quickly to resolve these issues.

Sincerely, Kathy Kirkendall
Lacerte Source Doc Auto-Entry Product Manager

Kathy,

The software we use for printing W-2 forms is provided by Advanced Micro Solutions, 1099-Etc for 2006.

I printed a 3-up W-2 this morning, and the program omitted the wages in Box 1 and the Medicare wages in Box 5 - both flagged by the program as potential problems; and it omitted federal withholding (Box 2) and Medicare withholding (Box 6) with no flags at all. It almost got the FL ID number correct - only off on one digit.

How much testing did you folks do on this? I hesitated recommending the purchase to my partners because it felt like Lacerte was rushing this out at the last minute, but we bought seven of the Fujitsu 5110 scanners and the Auto Import and DMS programs for us and the two CPA firms that share space with us. Roughly $7,000 worth of hardware and software and we feel like we were totally mislead by the Lacerte rep who assured us that the OCR capabilities were great.

When do you anticipate sending out a fix for these problems?

I had the same experience. Disappointed. The W-2's I scanned were 4 ups laser printed - no folds, marks etc.

Unless a new release comes soon that works as advertised I will request a refund.

Hi Kathy et al. We have a Canon 3080C II scanner that we run with Laserfiche as our document imaging solution. I tried the auto import with several 4-up W2s I had just printed using the CFS payroll program (VERY popular - at least in CA). The auto entry could not read the federal or CA TINs, and it missed the state withholding, CA SDI, Social Security Wages, Medicare wages, etc - most of the time. What worked looked really promising -created a new client when I scanned a W2 for a non-client. It's currently pretty unreliable and I would only opt to keep it because I love hi-tech but I don't think it will save us any time - at least for W2s. That's tough for us here in southern CA - it's not uncommon to see clients with 20-30 W2s each year from film industry work. We have been scanning & using Laserfiche for 4 tax seasons. We run the Canon on a "degraded 300 dpi" which I think is 200*300 - but very fast. The cheap OCR routine in Laserfiche was able to pick out TINs on the CFS W2s & it got most of the text right - the numbers etc gave it problems. The LF OCR had problems with the other W2s it read for this client - from the various film industry payroll services; TINs were wrong in several cases. When I set the scanner to full 300dpi then the TINs OCR'd perfectly,

This is clearly hard to do - I hope a more robust OCR engine will do the trick.

I have used the 4up from 1099-etc (laser generated) and saying I am disappointed is to be polite. I can enter a W-2 faster especially if the client has worked for the same employer.

I also have issues with your software telling me my Canon DR 2050C is not a scanner that works with this software.

It works great with your DMS.

Hello tjemison,

Thank you for providing us with so much feedback regarding your first couple of days using our new product! I'd like to respond to your comment about 300 DPI resolution. We have worked very closely with our OCR partner in developing this solution. They are experts in OCR, and have OCR solutions in various different industries. They are absolutely certain that 300 DPI resolution will result in the best character recognition. Anything different than 300 will produce sub-optimal results. I really encourage you to scan your source documents in 300-DPI mode.

Sincerely,

Kathy Kirkendall
Lacerte Product Manager - Source Doc Auto-Entry

Hello MPHCPA,

Thank you for providing us with feedback about your experience using Source Doc Auto-Entry. I'd like to address your concerns:

1. I'm not familiar with 1099-etc but I would check to see if they follow the IRS specification for the W2. Beyond the major payroll company formats, we are supporting the IRS format for W2's. I'd encourage you to scan in our supported formats and you will see different results.

2. If your scanner is not TWAIN compliant, you can still use it with Source Doc Auto-Entry but it will be a different process. You can scan outside of Source Doc Auto-Entry - just make sure to scan at 300-DPI. Then, click on the "Browse for Documents" button to pull those scans into Source Doc Auto-Entry.

I hope these suggestions will give you a better feel for the products' full potential.

Sincerely,

Kathy Kirkendall
Lacerte Product Manager - Source Doc Auto-Entry

Hello leon5461,

I replied to another posting about the 1099-Etc format. Please check to see if that company follows the IRS specification. I'm sure you have a lot of 1040 clients' who have payroll company W2's, QuickBooks software W2's, and W2's on pre-printed forms, which follow the IRS format. We focused on supporting the most common W2 formats for the initial version. I would encourage you to try additional W2 formats to get a better feel for the product.

We are going to be sending out a Source Doc Auto-Entry update in Lacerte CD4 which you will receive later this month. It will include a dozen improvements. We will provide a complete list of improvements with the CD.

Thank you very much for partnering with us and providing us with this valuable feedback.

Sincerely,
Kathy Kirkendall
Lacerte Product Manager - Source Doc Auto-Entry

Kathy

I tried a Paychex W-2. It was a horror. I can imput faster and more accuate than you can scan, especially if it is a W-2 that is already proforma'ed.

The Canon DR-2050c is Twain compliant. It appears that you are pushing your own partner's scanner.

When I requested a refund one of the Lacerte people told me that I could not get a refund unless I had tech support walk me through a set up. I told him that this was not the way Lacerte approached it on the web-site. He just ignored me.

Mike then called me and asked me to give it to the next update. If I was still unhappy he would refund my money. Who is telling the truth?

It appears that Lacerte wants their customes to "Test" their Auto-Doc System. If thats the case, I should not be charged. I do not want to hear the Line about this being a new piece of software. Lacerte did not really test it, but (I feel) rushed it out the door so they can bill it out. I would like to know a list of scanners that you tested this system with and how many Accountants were in on the Alpha and Beta testing.

Your Software tells me this scanner (Canon DR-2050c) is not compatible with SDAE.

What does this mean. It works with all other programs including your DMS.

Kathy

I printed the 4 up (1099-etc) on plain paper using my HP 4300.

1099-Etc is a program that many accountants that do their client's Payroll use. Lacerte should buy the program and utilize it for texting.

I have spent too much time talking and writing about this problem. Lacerte should refund all the money they received from their Auto-Doc System. I do not feel any accountant should have to pay for a program that is really in "Beta". I would then gladly give you my feed back.

Thanks Kathy. Just so we are clear: I was reporting that the Lacerte SDAE OCR process was failing pretty badly on FULL 300dpi scanned images from my TWAIN-compliant Canon 3080C II scanner. I had switched the scanner to that resolution prior to the SDAE testing - and SDAE failed. The only reason I mentioned the degraded scan mode was as a data point for your internal analysis - Laserfiche gets a decent OCR result from degraded resolution scanned images.

SDAE is actually performing two major functions. First is the OCR process - and you may be interpreting characters very well. The second step is a more recent development in imaging systems, and that is identifying the significance of characters groups - is it a name, street address, SSN, TIN, Box 13 entry etc. I know Laserfiche has such an add-on utility where it serches "zones" on docs to determine what it is seeing and then identify entries in key fields. My VAR told me it didn't work well enough to justify the expense (much more than SDAE). I plan to wait for CD4 to see if your partners have solved this problem but I'm not holding out much hope.

I have to agree with the others who have observed that Lacerte couldn't have conducted any meaningful testing on this product. It is failing on the cleanest and most common document formats any of us will see all year. It is failing on TWAIN-compliant 300 dpi scanners of all brands, and in every accounting office to try it. If CD4 fails to make the product perform its most basic design functions then Lacerte should not only refund the full purchase price, but also some financial consideration for lost time and/or wasted IT upgrades - maybe a 50%-80% discount on next year's product like what you offer to new subscribers?

Kathy:

If funny that my multifunction Brother (MFC7420) is compatible with your OCR Software. This was a $ 250 machine.

My Canon DR-2050C (just a scanner)at close to $ 600 is not.

The way I see it Lacerte wants me to by a Fujitsu. It that is the case I suggest more than a $ 300 discount. Or throw in the Auto Doc Software with the Scanner (an still give the $ 300 discount). Now we have a starting point.

Kathy,

I have been following this discussion carefully (and was one of the first to respond to the first message in the discussion.) I see that you have responded to most of the comments, though not to mine. I AM using one of the recommended scanners (the 5120 which seems to be a great scanner). I also am using it at the recommended DPI. But the results so far have been not in the least satisfactory. On the 4-up laser printed W-2s it is not picking up either Federal or California EINs (the stuff that is a pain to enter for E-filed returns) or even the correct employer's address. Sure it picked up wages, SS, and Medicare, but that's easy to enter, at least for me. And on the only 1099-R I have tried, it didn't even pick up ANYTHING the first time I tried it (though the 1099-R scanned beautifully) except for some obscure number that had no meaning (and I don't even know where it came from). The second time I tried with the same 1099-R, it did pick up the income and the state withholding, but nothing else (not even the client or the SSN).

I had my "one-on-one" telephone training yesterday, and that was no help. The guy was very nice, but basically said that there was nothing I was doing wrong. It just seems that the program really isn't ready!!

Vida Freeman, EA

Sorry to report that the product failed for us, too. We were scanning freshly printed 3up W-2s and various 1099s, printed by Intuit's own EasyAcct and Information Return System software. Good, knowledgable tech suport for the install, but aparently Lacert overlooked teseting on the products that it sells. I'm very disappointed. This product has a long way to go...

Kathy,

Not to beat a dead horse, but 1099-etc is a product from Advanced Micro Solutions, a national software company. Their W-2s conform to IRS specs. We tried the 2-up, 3-up and 4-up versions and they all had fatal flaws. We scanned a 1099-INT form and the program didn't recognize either the client or the 1099 form itself. I even tried scanning at 600 x 600 mode and it had no impact. We are using the Fujitsu scanners that Lacerte recommended.

It seems clear from all of the posts that the problem is not with the software that we are using, it is the OCR engine itself. I have informed our Lacerte rep that we will wait until CD-4 is released to draw a final conclusion. If it is not satisfactory, we will expect a full refund and a substantial discount on next year's Auto Source Doc software (assuming that it is fully functional next year).

The Lacerte name has always stood for extremely high standards in the tax preparation field. Please don't let us down.

We have been asked to wait for the update on Thursday night and we will, but I just read the response that said no refund; this upsets me that Lacerte, which is a high end, high price product to begin with, would not stand by its product with a money back guarantee. I will wait for the update, but if it doesn't work, then we will ask for a refund; if there is flack then we will look at all products we use from your company, including QB, for replacement. I don't want to deal with a company that doesn't stand by its products.

As to formats, PayChex may be hard, but it is a major player in our area and you can't say. well, they should be generated by QB and they will work. I specifically asked the question when I purchased if the software was designed to work primarily with other company products, like QB and DMS or if it worked with other companies products. I was not told that Paychex was difficult to import. So, lets not add misrepresentation to the list.

I have yet to see any positive messages on this forum, so Kathy, are you getting the message loud and clear?

"If you are not satisfied for any reason with the Lacerte Source Doc Auto-Entry product, contact Intuit Customer Service at 1-800-933-9999 by February 16, 2007, which is 30 days after the product is scheduled to be available, for a full refund of the licensee fee paid."

This was cut and pasted from Lacerte's own Website. If they tell you no refund then send them to the Lacerte homepage.

I have been asked (by Kathy) to wait, too, until I have tried it on more customers. I will do that, though I have told her that I am not too optimistic, especially since it has not worked on anything I have tried it on with the exception of a W-2 from ADP (and even on that it missed some key information the first time through) and a 1099 from SSA (which is not very useful in my opinion).

And definitely the money back guarantee was a firm promise, both on their website and orally at the free demo seminar I went to. I do not think they can go back on that promise to those of us who were willing to be their primary testers of the software. Some of us have spent a lot of time trying to get this to work.

Vida Freeman